Well just look at our friendly prison inmates, they work out with horible nutrition and they are massive…why? cause they workout with the greatest amount of intensity. I personally believe its possible to get really big without gear, although its impossible to be 300+lb’s without gear. So i guess its what you define as big…to me 6ft 240lb’s is achievable naturally………..6ft 320lb is not.

i agree with cyphon except that your genetix have a big role too. if you are normally a pretty skinny person or even a little bigger than that, you probubly wont get too extremely big without the help of some “friends”. if you are already a big person, you should be able to bulk up alot easier

Im with CYPHON and tholberg on this also! Your genes and intensity have a lot to do with your results! Btw, turk whats “forcing” you to do roids? I mean if you don’t want to why do them. Remember that you must be physically and mentally able/willing! If you decide to do them make sure you are doing them for the right reasons! Goodluck on your decision.

Its really not a good idea to do roids if you dont want to………..think about it some more and find all your options….maybe start out with some non-gear products like a good ole slin-creatine stack. I dunno what to say bro, but never do somethin you dont want to….especially for the wrong reasons.

You guys talking about inmates…they get gear AND get thousands of cals a day. I’ve read that an average prison meal is between 1500 and 3000 cals, sure there is plenty of fat, but they have access to the protein, they buy the same supplements and juice we can. Most importantly, they have an early lights out, meaning they get plenty of rest.

As for not making progress, try harder. Eat more, lift less(time), sleep more.

I gained around 60 pounds without gear, before I used. That with only a 3% BF increase and all within 10 months.

Good Luck

Rugger have you served any time? Well I am not proud of it, but i did. I will tell you that fuckin dog food they feed us was shit! I dont know many guys that could stomache most of that garbage. Yes we had access to very low quality protien supps, but we were not able to consume 150grams day at best…..shit we were lucky to get 100grams on a good day if we had sandwich meet cooling in the toilet. Gear in prison??? Bro I did time in chicagos cook county prison and joliet pen. The only thing I saw was weed, cigs and a few other recreationals…..the last thing an inmate thinks about is gear. We had time to kill and the only way was to get high and do a lot of reading. Any how my workout habbits stem from that time. i went in at 6ft 175 (4years ago) and I came out 6months later at 207lb’s and lean! I developed an almost animal like intensity for hitting the iron and I never bought into teh commercial propaganda of how I should lift. I do what most people consider overtraining and yet I grow like a weed. I see fellas at the gym hitting 3-4 sets at 6-8 reps and dont get any great result…..I on the other hand dont believe what everyone says. I stood alone on my training style and belief. I hit high reps up to 20 per set and I always do more than 10-15 sets per body part. My style is wicked, but for a hardgainer its been the proven formula for my success. I tried mentzers way. i tried all the other gurus formulas, but I had to find what worked for me……..My advice to you guys that are not growing is to open your mind and develope training techniques that maybe people in the magazines or these boards dont advocate as effective……sorry for the long rant.heheheh P.S. I was never a prison bitch:)

CYPHON I have many, many Boss’ for buddies. IL prisons are obviously a shit, Texas inmates receive about 3K per meal and gear is very available in prison. Commisaries stocked good supplements and inmates can receive care packages of them as well.

Training-CYPHON nailed it, you must find what works for you. Some guys it’s 50 sets others it’s 5.

Again, food and sleep are most important.

CYPHON ( 09:53 p.m.): Rugger have you served any time? Well I am not proud of it, but i did. I will tell you that fuckin dog food they feed us was shit! I dont know many guys that could stomache most of that garbage. Yes we had access to very low quality protien supps, but we were not able to consume 150grams day at best…..shit we were lucky to get 100grams on a good day if we had sandwich meet cooling in the toilet. Gear in prison??? Bro I did time in chicagos cook county prison and joliet pen. The only thing I saw was weed, cigs and a few other recreationals…..the last thing an inmate thinks about is gear. We had time to kill and the only way was to get high and do a lot of reading. Any how my workout habbits stem from that time. i went in at 6ft 175 (4years ago) and I came out 6months later at 207lb’s and lean! I developed an almost animal like intensity for hitting the iron and I never bought into teh commercial propaganda of how I should lift. I do what most people consider overtraining and yet I grow like a weed. I see fellas at the gym hitting 3-4 sets at 6-8 reps and dont get any great result…..I on the other hand dont believe what everyone says. I stood alone on my training style and belief. I hit high reps up to 20 per set and I always do more than 10-15 sets per body part. My style is wicked, but for a hardgainer its been the proven formula for my success. I tried mentzers way. i tried all the other gurus formulas, but I had to find what worked for me……..My advice to you guys that are not growing is to open your mind and develope training techniques that maybe people in the magazines or these boards dont advocate as effective……sorry for the long rant.heheheh P.S. I was never a prison bitch:)

I think you have enough input on this subject as it is…Good point of views though. I would have to agree with Cyphon. If you want to be a FREAK…though…HA!Ha!

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH CYPHON WHEN I GOT OUT QUENTIN, I WEIGHT 200 WITH SHITTY BOLOGNA SANDWICHES AND OTHER NON PROTEIN SHIT.