2017-05-02 at 5:40 AM #11924
These 2 articles have been taken out of Archives for all of your guys wondering about tapering. For certain drugs like Dianabol I think it is necessary, but for the most part I agree with these articles.
Tapering is a Waste of Time
Typical cycles are designed in a tapered fashion, starting low and slowly rising to the maximum dose. Once the maximum dose is reached, these cycles begin to steadily decline in dose to reach a very small amount at the end. The theory behind these cycles is as follows: At the start of the program, the body doesn’t require much in the way of anabolics to grow. As the cycle progresses and growth occurs, more steroid is needed to maintain growth. At the peak of the cycle, the amount of steroid is slowly decreased to allow the body to return to a normal hormonal state. This ensures that the body does not experience a shock as the endogenous production of androgens has been restored through the gradual tapering of exogenous androgens.
Unfortunately, this theory of cycling is flawed. Designing cycles in this fashion usually ensures that the optimum level of steroid to induce growth is only present in the body for a short period. Most of the cycle is either spent climbing towards this goal or retreating
from it in the hopes of restoring the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis.
When designing a cycle, the very first question that must be answered is what is the peak mg amount of steroid that will be used during the course of the program. This amount of steroid should be used for most of the cycle, with little fluctuation at the beginning and end. This ensures that an adequate dose of steroid is being used to induce growth throughout the length of the cycle.
Concerns over maintaining or restoring proper function of the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (HPTA) are easily addressed via the use of a variety of pharmaceuticals. Once endogenous production of androgens has been halted due to excessive levels of androgens in the blood, the only effective methods of restoring normal hormonal function is by cleaning out or the use of pharmaceuticals like clomiphene or HCG. Tapering to restore normal hormonal function is a waste of time since it can easily be restored using these drugs.
TAPERING CYCLES IS BULLSHIT
Any amount of injected testosterone (or its derivatives) in the amount required to produce gains is going to shut down your natural production. Studies show sterility(temporarily, guys and gals) at dosages around 200 mg of testosterone per week, from which you can assume that your natural testosterone production has come to a halt.
Keeping this fact in mind, you need to find the weekly dosage of hormones you want to use to get your gains and stick to it throughout your cycle. Now granted receptor sites are being occupied and only a small portion of them are becoming “free”. Think of it like a parking garage. When the movie is showing the garage is packed, but a few people will trickle out early opening spots for the few desperately circling cars. If you had extremely limited amounts of drugs you could load up your sites with a great deal of drugs then use very small amounts to fill up those open receptors as they become available. This is impractical. Your best option is find a weekly dosage of androgens (say 750 mg per week) and keep on it for the 6-8 weeks you are on. You may want to switch esters of the drugs (esters generally change solubility and absorption time) as your cycle nears its end so that you can be sure when the drugs are out of your system, but that’s about it.
Let your “helper” drugs like HCG, clomid and nolvadex get your body back online.
Non-testosterone drugs, like nandrolone (trade name deca-durabolin) or trenbolone acetate (parabolan-want to buy some…here the best thing to do…build a time machine and travel back to the 1980s because that was the last time it was manufactured…) absolutely should not be tapered in my opinion.2017-05-03 at 5:17 AM #11932
Any and all AS will saturate your HPT!
HPT is responsible for stimulating LH and FSH production to get your nuts back online.
NO DRUG AT ALL CAN CLEAR THE HPT! All HCG, CLOMID, and/or nolvadex can do is MIMIC or stimulate LH production. Now, the concommittant raise in natural test will again sATURATE YOUR HPT so you are back to start with HPT taking 4weeks to 6mos to recover depending on AS used with the synthetics like deca being much worse.
Anastrozole, however may have some unique properties which aren’t explored by research and using something like aldactone which is an anti-androgen with anastrozole may clear the HPT, but nobody has tested that as of yet.2017-05-03 at 6:17 AM #11933
Well, I never taper. the end……lol. animal?2017-05-03 at 7:10 AM #11934
I flatline as well.2017-05-03 at 7:43 AM #11935
This will indeed stir up some controversey, but that is good, shows everyone is thinking and is concerned.
I myself have always tapered on high androgenic drugs. To me and it is my own opinion that it is safer and has kept me in this game for along while. I just don’t like to have my system crash.
We must understand that everyone is different and reactions can also be different. If one felt safer to taper than he should taper off. If one was to get good results with no adverse effects on flatlining then he should do it.
Now on anabolic drugs like deca, eq, and primobolan, etc., Yes, flatlining is ideal due to the low androgenic properties and to me is safe to keep at a constant dosage thru out the cycle.
So everyone, it really comes down to yourself and what you feel safe with. Take what you want and leave the rest, but please no flaming as everyone is intitled to his own opinion.2017-05-03 at 8:17 AM #11936
Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, but assuming that above “x” amount of test (400 mg according to some sources, but I won’t go there) the HPTA is altered, then tapering above this amount may well be a waste of time from a receptor and HPTA standpoint.
Everyone seems to steer clear of the Cortisol issue. What I am trying to understand is, that if cortisol levels rise in relational porportion to testosterone levels, then wouldn’t tapering down, (up wouldn’t matter) bring cortisol levels closer to a manageable level (ie with Cytadren) instead of stopping cold turkey and flooding your system with unbound cortisol. It is my understanding that it is cortisol that creates direct muscle loss not imbalance in the HPTA.
Thoughts?2017-05-03 at 8:55 AM #11937
Like thick said everyone is different…..I did 1gram of test and 600mg/wk of deca for 6 months and just got off cold turkey. I didnt lose anything. the only side was deppresion which I countered with zoloft. The cortisone rebound didnt effect me at all……………2017-05-03 at 9:37 AM #11938
In it’s scheme in all this as blocking it or not really seems to make no difference at all.
Now, if you were going to taper you should taper on test! Testosterones stimulate the nerves and the HPT. Synthetics like deca actually suppress nerve growth and this can be found on medline.2017-05-03 at 10:34 AM #11939
my .02….I taper dbol, abombs and all test. I will never buy into the fact that it only takes 200mg of test to shut your test production down.
I think that 200mg will hinder your own levels and allow your body to secrete less of it’s own, but shut it down??? never.
How did anyone ever derive that number. Everyone produces diff. amounts of test and everyone has a diff. cut-off point before “the alarm is sounded”. This is why I taper test. I personally have found that my body kicks in on it’s own faster if I taper than just quit. I’ve tried both and noticed the reactions of my body on both.
I think whoever wrote that article is taking and extremely biased stance on what his/her body does with tapering vs. flatlining.
Now, on all other as’s…I always increase my doses straight up….usually by 50mgs every 3-4 weeks and finish wherever I may.
trey2017-05-03 at 11:18 AM #11940
I posted that study numerous times on varix and other boards, so I’m guessing somebody has it. It was done by the university of IA as one of the subjects or researchers sent me the abstract. I don’t know the title, but it looked at LH, FSH, just about every AS, and the reductions of LH and FSH at 2 weeks – 4weeks which went to zero.
Actually, I’m so smart that I just made that number up!
Now, let’s say you can’t find that study per se, well you have at least 10 other studies looking at using testosterones as CONTRACEPTIVES at 250mg/week or less.
If you can’t find those studies you are dumb!
Anyhow, let’s just compare for scientific exploration that your body produces 7-9mg of test a day. Hmmm, wonder what 4 times that amount would do to you as you don’t obviously need it.
(200mg/7days is 28.57 mg/day)
And I’m sure you all have a totally scientific explanation as to how the HPT couldn’t possibly ‘see’ or be saturated by 4 times the normal endogenous testosterone levels, right?
Anarchy in the USA!2017-05-03 at 11:50 AM #11941
replete with study references on anabolic fitness showing shutdown and how long it lasts. One has esters in the title.
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